[A fascinating discussion by Joe Atwill and Tim Kelly joining all the dots connecting the evil psychiatrist Ewen Cameron, CD Jackson, MK-Ultra, Fake News, Zionists, “Nazis“, Mind Control and Holocau$t Revisionism — KATANA.]
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Our Interesting Times
Ewen Cameron, CD Jackson, MK-Ultra, Fake News, Zionists, Nazis, Mind Control and Holocaust Revisionism
Click this link to listen to the audio:
https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/tkelly6785757/episodes/2017-08-05T09_14_39-07_00
Powers & Principalities XI
Ewen Cameron, MK-Ultra &
Holocaust Revisionism
TRANSCRIPT
[00:43]
Tim: Joe you’re back. How you doing?
Joe: I’m great Tim! How are you doing?
Tim: Very well. Doing very well. Thank you. Tonight you want to talk about, well an interesting character, Donald Ewen Cameron. Ewen Cameron, most people know him as. He was a psychiatrist, a very, I guess, theoretical, would you say, a “groundbreaking psychiatrist“, you could say? He was born in Scotland in 1901. He began his career as a resident surgeon at Glasgow Infirmary. In 1929 he moved to Canada to work in Brandon Mental Hospital. 1936 he became a director of research at Worcester State Hospital in Massachusetts, so he came to United States. In 1938 he was appointed professor of neurology and psychiatry at Albany State Medical School.
[Image] Donald Ewen Cameron.
Donald Ewen Cameron (24 December 1901 – 8 September 1967) — known as D. Ewen Cameron or Ewen Cameron — was a Scottish-born psychiatrist who served as President of the American Psychiatric Association (1952–1953), Canadian Psychiatric Association (1958-1959), American Psychopathological Association (1963), Society of Biological Psychiatry (1965)[4] and World Psychiatric Association (1961-1966). Notwithstanding his high professional reputation, he has been criticized for administering electroshock therapy and experimental drugs to patients without their informed consent. Some of this work took place in the context of the Project MK-Ultra mind control program. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Ewen_Cameron
So he has quite a resume! During the Second World War he began working for the Office of Strategic Services [OSS]. So here we have a member of the British, subject the British Empire working for the United States, working for the OSS. In 1943 he went to Canada and established a psychiatry department — that’s curious — during the war, at Montreal’s McGill University, director of the Alan Memorial Institute, which was later implicated in some infamous experiments on some patients, under the guise of MK-Ultra and also some other programs with the Canadian government.
Also a curious experience during the war. He apparently examined and interrogated Rudolf Hess, and worked for Allen Dulles in Europe. So he had that background.
And of course, under MK-Ultra, he tested his theories, I guess it was called “de-patterning” where he wiped, scrubbed people’s brains clear. He takes some patients that went in for some minor things like postpartum depression, anxiety, and destroyed their minds! And this was funded by the CIA through the Human Ecology Fund, I believe. And also through interest in some Department of Education grants, or Department of Health Education Welfare grants and some other government agencies, DOD [Department of Defense] of course.
Joe: Rockefeller, …
Tim: And the Rockefeller Foundation. So just it’s kind of a wide, … Also a lot of money from the Canadian government, as well. More money came from the Canadian government. And it’s said that he was operating in Canada because the CIA didn’t want to break the law in experiments on US citizens. Yeah, right! [laughing]
So anyway, that is Ewen Cameron. That’s his experience in MK-Ultra. He died in 1967, having a heart attack while on a skiing trip. So, where do you want to, how do you want to enter this discussion?
Joe: Well, he’s someone who really should be understood. I mean, just you couldn’t have an individual that’s more important, in my opinion. You have to get a good grip on.
Cameron is important, because he spans, and was integral to, two absolutely central narratives, basically. One of them was tangential, and that is the MK-Ultra stuff. And so basically, MK-Ultra even though, it has this concept of being, you know, studying basically individual psychological people. And the idea has come about that it was going to create, you know, a Manchurian Candidate, or mind control puppets.
[Image] Robert Gordon Wasson (September 22, 1898 – December 23, 1986) author and ethnomycologist. Photograph by Allan B. Richardson in 1955, Mexico. He was an American author, amateur ethnomycologist, and Vice President for Public Relations at J.P. Morgan & Co. In the course of independent research, Wasson made contributions to the fields of ethnobotany, botany, and anthropology. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._Gordon_Wasson
It was also against culture in general. Right? I mean, it was basically, when you look at the work of Gordon Wasson and the MK-Ultra funding, you can see that the science was going to be applied on a vast scale! And we’ve talked about where this vast scale psychological operation has various strands. You know, you can trace it back. But, Cameron was very famous, because he got caught!
And it really led to a lot of the research that has become the new history that is emerging through the alternative media, which is, that the whole counterculture was a government or “secret society” operation, right? And the reason why Cameron was so central, is that he got caught!
[05:08]
You know, it’s a kind of a long story, and it’s not kind of what I want to get into, but basically people were able to bring testimony – and there was enough corroboration that it was just inescapable – that Cameron had done this “de-patterning”, which was basically using humans to see if he could erase their mind, their memory, and then recreate a new human being, basically a new mind. This was done without their consent, obviously. No one would consent to this. So it was experimentation with a very strong moral authority, in other words Cameron was taking the position that, you know, my science is more important than your existence. Right!
This is the same moral authority we see in the creation of the counterculture. I mean, who would create the Grateful Dead? Who would have the idea of doing that and have them give out millions of tabs of LSD to teenagers which would produce, you know, wasted lives and in many cases just shattered minds? But some group does have this authority and Cameron was part of it.
Now, in Cameron’s case he got caught. They brought all this evidence, meticulous scientific evidence, you know, showing that here these people were, here are the symptoms, here is a corroborating, … Sort of, there was some documentation on what they were like when they left by other psychiatrists would examine them. And they brought their [law] suits and the CIA fessed up, and it said OK, you know, we’re going to give you a bunch of money. And so they basically bought off the victims of Cameron’s experiments.
So Cameron led to then, you know, a lot of research into MK-Ultra. And this then kind of began to bring about the idea of that MK-Ultra was really not just individual science, ah, science that we can affect individuals, but science on a broad scale.
And so, this was really troubling to me. And I’ve mentioned this a couple of times, Tim, I’ve said, you know, I don’t understand how Ewen Cameron could have done the things that he did, because he is the one who brought to the world the idea of the Germans as a nation that was guilty of atrocity.
Cameron was of an amazingly high stature in the world of psychology. He had, basically, he was running the whole science at this time. He was the head of some world organisation. He was the head of the Canadian psychological departments. And so, he was called on to provide basically the science that would underline what became known as the Nuremberg Trial.
[Image] Aerial view of Nuremberg’s “Palace of Justice” in winter 1945-46
And so, he wrote two books about the Germans. And basically they began, with some other events that we’ll go into in a second, but they began the idea that there was a problem with the German race. So you had, …
Tim: Like a congenital defect, or something?
Joe: Like it was a congenital defect, right! So he wrote these books, one of which he wrote before he arrived in Nuremberg, and the other afterwards. And this is what created the basis for the idea of “German collective guilt”.
He said that, basically, that we had to be certain that we would restructure the German psychology. De-patterning, right. So that it would never arise as a military threat.
So, it was Cameron, then, who basically, … And he used expressions like:
“Germany needed to become the ward of the world!”
Now that’s pretty chilling, given that the wards [patients] of his psychological clinic, didn’t end up too well, right!
But it was just background in psychiatric practice that formed the basis, right, of how the world then, you know, had his narrative that Germany and the German race were guilty of atrocity, mental illness.
[10:01]
Tim: Hey Joe?
Joe: Yeah? Yes sir?
Tim: I’ve got a connection issue. Can give you a call back?
Joe: Oh, sure.
Tim: Okay, thanks. We are back.
Okay, go ahead.
Joe: Okay. So I had this problem in that it was illogical. On one hand Cameron was saying he was one bringing us the understanding of the Germans as the nation committing atrocities and, on the other hand, he was committing the very atrocities he was accusing the Germans! It just made no sense!
And then I realized that it would be logical if what Cameron was doing was, in fact, part of the same operation that he was involved with when he was taking funding from MK-Ultra. Right? In other words, if he was creating basically psychological control for the organization, and he was creating the fake narratives! Just like you had the fake narratives in the counterculture.
You know you have the idea that Wasson was this individual who just was interested in mushrooms, who ends up in Mexico and, you know, find spiritual enlightenment with magic mushrooms, and then Henry Luce publishes his story. And the next thing, you know, here comes the counterculture!
You go into it a little bit and you can see the story is fake and the narrative is fake and it’s just being done to set us up! So that was the way that I thought, well if that’s the case with Cameron, who is part of this MK-Ultra system, then that would suddenly, … Then the fact that he boasts, was able to basically exterminate human beings. Because that’s it literally what he was doing!
And also accuse the German grounds of morality, would suddenly become logical. You see what I mean? In other words, now it makes sense that Cameron is simply creating a fictional narrative. His moral authority is such that he can lie, and he can exterminate human beings. And that would mean that Ewen Cameron was not a character from history that was deeply illogical, but rather he was just a lifetime actor. You know, we discussed this.
And so when I compared Cameron, I tried to look at sort of to the story that he brought up about the German atrocities. I looked for examples of the other aspects of the things that became the foundation of the German atrocity concept, right?
[Image] Charles Douglas Jackson.
Charles Douglas Jackson was born in New York City on 16th March 1902. After graduation from Princeton University in 1924, he joined the media industry. In 1931 he went to work with Henry Luce at Time Magazine. Influenced by the right-wing views of his employer, Jackson became President of the Council for Democracy.
During the Second World War Jackson served as special assistant to the Ambassador to Turkey before joining the OSS in 1943. The following year he was appointed Deputy Chief at the Psychological Warfare Division at Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force (SHAEF).
After the war, Jackson became Managing Director of Time-Life International. In 1948 Frank Wisner, who worked with Jackson in the OSS, was appointed as director of the Office of Special Projects. Soon afterwards it was renamed the Office of Policy Coordination (OPC). This became the espionage and counter-intelligence branch of the Central Intelligence Agency. See more here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/13700-charles-douglas-jackson-and-the-zapruder-film/
You have the Nuremberg trials. You have the atrocities that were listed. And when I studied them I found an interesting thing, that this character CD Jackson [Charles Douglas Jackson] had been involved with, … He was from the OSS.
He was later, someone who worked with the CIA, and he had been the head of the OSS Psychological Warfare Department. I’m butchering the title, but he was basically very high up, and he had a relationship with Allen Dulles. And he was sort of Dulles’ eyes on the ground, in post-war Europe.
[Image] CD Jackson at Buchenwald? Source: https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t988597/
And there’s a picture which purports to be CD Jackson and he’s at Buchenwald [concentration camp]. And there you have two of the components of the narrative! Of the German atrocity narrative. And they are “shrunken heads”, two shrunken heads, and a lamp that has a human skin for the covering of the shade.
So, next to it, is this picture of CD. He’s there next to the table. People can look at those, they’re online and you can see the photograph.
Now I have seen shrunken heads Tim, because I’ve lived in South America and they are from time to time for sale in, you know, street bazaars and whatnot. And I can guarantee you that the shrunken heads that are on the table are not of prisoners from a German POW camp! They are basically, they are legitimate shrunken heads, but they’re from South America. And it’s easy to tell by the hair cut that these heads have. They are not, you know, from anyone who is inside a POW camp. And the lamp shade has, it’s a video and you can actually see that the lampshade does not possess any tattoos, which is the claim that they were human skin which you could verify, because there were tattoos. However when the camera moves and you can see that the lampshade doesn’t seem to have any. Now, both of these things, which are well-known inside the narrative of German atrocities have disappeared!
[15:17]
It’s amazing, because they would be probably, you know, some of the important historical artifacts in our history, but they have disappeared.
So the fact that Jackson was involved with them is very suspicious to me, because of who he was. He worked with Henry Luce he became the publisher of Time Life, where Gordon Wasson has the story of the magic mushrooms. CD Jackson is the individual who created the Bilderberg Society, the American branch of it, or the American participation in Bilderberg.
And then I think most importantly is he is the one who sequestered, who purchased and sequestered, the Zapruder’s JFK film, right?
So that line up is extremely curious! And it is made coherent by the fact that he was also part of Operation Mockingbird! Now this is where everything starts to clear up to my mind, because with Operation Mockingbird you are now deep into the kind of social control that the Secret Society was creating with the MK-Ultra science, right? Operation Mockingbird, pretty well vetted, you know, listeners can do their research, but it was basically taking control of the media by government intelligence for the purpose of propaganda. To creating fake narratives. And now when you look backwards and you see CD’s participation in the narrative of the atrocity, … For it to be logical it all has to be part of one system.
CD Jackson is another individual like Ewen Cameron that, you know, he had the moral authority to participate in Operation Mockingbird where the citizens are being fed false narratives for the purpose of propaganda.
He had the moral authority to, you know, basically sequester the Zapruder film when obviously, the population needed to see it. And so, when you see him involved with the beginning of the atrocities that become part of the Holocaust narrative, the way that this is logical to me Tim, is that you have, … It’s all part of the same process. That’s all just one narrative.
And then the last curious fact I’ll bring up, I’m sorry to be long-winded. But, you know we had another show we talked about Edward Bernays, and how he talked about propaganda. He talked about mind control, and we have examples of him setting up what becomes the counterculture. And incidentally he did work with Wasson, Gordon Wasson, for ten years — they were very close friends.
And so Edward Bernays, who is the weird double nephew of Sigmund Freud, he was clearly involved in what becomes the culturally debased, anti-family, anti-Catholic, anti-ethnic community. Pro-feminism, you know, feminism, or Gloria Steinem’s version of feminism, pro-drug use, and pro-single mom. I mean, in other words, and pro-pornography! Bernays particularly is important in the production of pornography. And so, you know, …
Tim: So that is the early twentieth century like with “Damaged Goods” [a play], …
[Image] The play “Damaged Goods” (click image to enlarge).
Joe: Exactly right. And he brings up Naginski [sp] who is miming masturbation on stage and he’s producing a play with Rockefeller money, mind you. At the very beginning of the twentieth century. And so, Bernays is clearly plugged into this whole process by which a narrative about, you know, what is good? Sex, drugs and rock’n’roll essentially, is being established. But now when you look for it, …
Tim: Back then, wasn’t it “drugs, sex and jazz”? [laughing]
Joe: Yeah! Exactly! Yes sir! [laughing]
Tim: Rock’n’roll hadn’t been invented yet. [laughing]
Joe: Yeah, rock’n’roll wasn’t, … Right, it was drugs, sex and, … But anyway, … Yeah that’s how far back goes. But anyway so, you know, Dave McGowan shows that there is a generational issue. And this is obvious, because we’re not looking at a, you know, a project that is, you know, MK-Ultra or the CIA. I mean, this is a vast project!
This goes back, certainly to Gyorgy Lukács, … wrecking the name!
Tim: Talked about, you know, Hungary.
Joe: At the end of World War One! Right? Where where he’s trying to, you know, produce a debased sexual education for the recently conquered Hungarian country, under the promotion of Bela Kuhn.
[20:39]
And so that then becomes a Frankfurt School, which then becomes the American jewish Committee’s “Authoritarian Personality”, which then becomes the Macy Conference, which then becomes MK-Ultra. And we’ve done other shows, and we’ve shown all these connections.
So Bernays is just absolutely plugged into it, and now when you come forward one generation, what do you get? Well, you get this weird guy Murray Bernays! He’s the nephew, … Right? Again, like, one nephew from Freud, and now you have Edward’s nephew, Murray Bernays. And who is Murray Bernays?
Well, he creates the Nuremberg Trial.
The Nuremberg Trial was never really intended, … I mean, obviously to be a kind of, you know, “actual trial”! It was a “propaganda”. And Murray was in the Special Projects branch.
And so he basically designed the Nuremberg Trial. And with the idea that they would just have the impression of an actual trial, but that none of the people could really bring evidence in their defense, and then at the end of it they would be, you know, made guilty, and then you’d have this propaganda moment. So, this is, .. See, this is very clear, unfortunately.
And when you look at CD Jackson, … And incidentally one interesting thing about CD Jackson, that I found in doing research, is that Jackson’s not his real name, his real name was Jacobson, he was jewish. Now there’s some dispute about this, but the source is primary, someone who lived next to him at the Dakota Hotel. And in a book about the Dakota, that individual is questioned and he has absolutely no reason to lie about it, I mean, it’s going to be in a public document and he goes —“well, you know”, he’s talking about CD Jackson his next door neighbor and he said:
“Yeah, it’s really interesting. CD, you know, his name wasn’t Jackson, it was Jacobson, he was jewish. And his father owned something called Jacobson’s Marble”.
And now this has been scrubbed! Very mysterious. I’d like to have some citizen researchers help with this, to vet this idea, [it’s] very important to know this. Because if this is correct, and I think it is, because of how primary and clear the, you know, the documentation is. And also the fact that CD Jackson stated that his father was in the marble business. He doesn’t say he changed the name, but the fact that he was in the marble business, I’ve been able to verify. So this looks pretty clear. So that’s why when you get to basically, the Nuremberg Trial, you have a very clear picture of a narrative being created.
Now, you know, people will talk about “Holocaust denial”, which of course, is illegal in many countries. Which, you know, is sort of suspicious in and of itself. I mean, if their evidence was good why does it have to be illegal to discuss it? But it is.
But, this really isn’t something that I think, you know, it’s sort of like the historical individual that’s kind of, has been, there’s a mythology that develops around [it].
People will argue:
“Well was the individual historical or not?”
And to me, .. Just so as I can explain this clearly, it’s like, you know, the person who created the cartoon character Donald Duck had a duck that his neighbor owned, who’s name was Donald, right. Okay, now does that mean that Donald Duck the cartoon is a historical character? [Tim starts chuckling] Well, that’s a semantical issue, and you can’t answer it. And it’s like well, in some ways he you could, but the fact is that the historical Donald could not talk! He couldn’t speak English! So it’s fiction! But it’s not completely fiction. And so you have this like, with historical characters, you know, Buddha, Jesus, you know, people are always arguing:
“Well, you know, can you prove it?”
When you know, you can’t! It’s just impossible. But what you can do is understand the genre.and a cartoon is not history. Right?
[25:27]
And so with the “Holocaust”, in terms of denying it, that seems to me like the position of negation of someone who’s saying, well the Buddha could not have existed, because we know that no one can live on one grain of rice, a day, for a year.
Right? Okay. Well, but wait, he could have existed, this could just be an embellishment. With the “Holocaust” you have these people try to attack those who want to understand what happened, to bring up the details, and facts that we know about these events, and try to see if they are, in fact, created in the right context.
And then they’re attacked on the grounds that:
“Well, this is ‘Holocaust denial’!”
And, so I think that is sophistry. I think that the people who want to revisit the “Holocaust”, because of what we have uncovered in terms of the government production of the counterculture, right? Are trying to determine not, whether or not, there were camps, or whether or not, there were jews in camps, or whether or not this was morally defensible. None of these things are even on the table.
The question to me is, were the events taken and placed into a fictional context, for the purpose of propaganda?
And that’s what I think, when you go through these three individuals that I’ve mentioned: Bernays, Cameron and CD Jackson.
I think that it is far more logical, I mean just clearly, you know, makes much more sense to look at these guys, and their activity, as part of a propaganda narrative. And not one that doesn’t end with the conclusion of the Nuremberg Trial, but never basically ends! One that just continues to go forward, until now we have, you know, even, and then, the last atrocity element, which is the gas chambers.
Which, when I try to do research into it, and I really have done the best I can, just makes no sense to me!
Tim: Yeah, yeah, this, it’s accepted as gospel, you know. I’m reading about MK-Ultra and they talk about the Nazis, “Paperclip Nazis” and it is treated as if MK-Ultra is some sort of virus that’s brought in, with the Nazis. As if, you know, … unable to xxx treachery, lest we bring in these Nazis to infect our, you know, our system.
And within this description they talk about the experiments, these things, which may, or may not, have happened, maybe they’re embellished as well, probably are, just like the other aspects of the so-called “Holocaust” are probably extreme of embellishments, to say the least. But they’re just, .. You’ll hear the thing about Zyklon-B, and IG Farben. And it’s almost as if people are forced to include that, lest they be accused of, you know, of being a denialist or, and having your reputation, or their careers ruined, because there really is no evidence once you look at it. Just to see, .. That IG Farben, that Zyklon-B was used, the gas chambers aren’t there. In fact, Dachau I think, CD Jackson and Hollywood directors actually constructed a fake gas-chamber, as a part of a post-war tour they’d give there, to dignitaries and senators.
Joe: Absolutely, the films ….
Tim: The films that were produced by Alfred Hitchcock and Billy Wilder, and just the footage we have of the bodies being bulldozed. A lot of those are air-raid victims, or typhus victims. And the reality is that all the film we have of the so-called “Holocaust” is from the Western camps, which even based on the official narrative, weren’t part of the “Final Solution”. That all occurred in the east, and we have no film evidence of that.
In fact the aerial photography from reconnaissance during the war, show no such activity going on. Nor are there any records, requisition records, fuel, you know, fuel requisitions, all this display??? Isn’t in the documentary, or physical evidence to support that narrative. So all we have are some horror stories, largely coming from the Russian side, which I would say isn’t a reliable source. So, there’s much there to be skeptical about this, to say the least.
[30:01]
Joe: Yeah, exactly right! And, in fact, I think that we have to put it now into the context of, basically, the revelations concerning MK-Ultra, and the fact that we know that our government engages in the production of “narratives”.
I think that Gordon Wasson’s exposé, is probably the most important thing the citizens have been given, you know, I mean, … Since the Roman Empire! I mean, this is really, really important for citizens to know that!
Because there’s when you can really verify, it is both completely fake, and absolutely central to an enormous social program, you know, the counterculture! You know, …
Tim: Yes, so it reverberates today…
Joe: Yes it still reverberates today. And that of course, can now, you know, when you look at like, you know, the things that you’ve shown about the assault on the cities. How the ethnic communities, the Catholic communities in America’s cities, were then, … These communities were deliberately attacked.
Tim: Hmm, hmm.
Joe: To break them up, and to push them into the suburbs, to create the vast deracinated middle-class, right? That would then be susceptible to the now: Sex, drugs, and rock’n’roll, at this point.
Tim: Yeah, you create the vast wastelands of suburbia, where people are all going into debt, with their consumer goods. And yet they still can’t find happiness, and they find themselves on the anxiety medicine. Because kids no longer have their parishes, no longer have churches, or their ethnic lineage, they are deracinated. You’re right, they’re cut off, and now they have no roots, nothing to appeal to, nothing to refer to, and they wonder why they are unhappy.
Joe: Yeah! Well they have no … got no capacity to resist the mind control. You know, they can’t resist pornography. And pornography, I mean, like the Germans are, you know, claimed to be, sexually deranged, in doing these kinds of activities, but then when you go forward and look at what’s being promoted by the government and the counterculture.
How the government is promoting xxx in the sixties and seventies. Then you can see that the charges against the Germans, to this regard. The charges, are just like the charges that Cameron made, …
Tim: Yeah!
Joe: About them, you know, being in fact, a group that was capable of atrocities. For heaven’s sakes! When you are actually doing what you’re accusing the other individuals of being guilty of! You just don’t have the moral authority! And yet they do it time and time again!
Tim: Yes! He’s standing in the rubble of a bombed out German city, lecturing the Germans on their atrocities…
Joe: Yeah!
Tim: … And you’re asking, well who bombed the city?
Joe: Yeah! Well who fire bombed? Who deliberately targeted civilians? And then you, you know… So you see, this is the thing, and it gets back to my little story about Donald Duck. Is that at the end of the day, I think you’ll find, a basically a foundation of truth.
I am sure jews were in concentration camps.
Tim: Yeah, yeah.
Joe: I’m sure many of them were mistreated, because there would have been tremendous antagonism between German soldiers, and I don’t think that they would have been sought out for any special atrocities. I can’t find any evidence of that.
Tim: It kind of depends on where you are, because you’re mixing, … When you talk about the “Holocaust” they talk about the camps, the labor camps, which are industrial concerns, you know, IG Farben, IBM, General Motors, Standard Oil, — all involved. But then they mix in, like these police battalions on the Eastern Front, or near the front, where they’re fighting with these partisans. And you can’t mix the two, because they are two different environments. [You] can’t mix, the battlefield, you know, this raging battle, to what was going on maybe in Poland, or in parts of Germany, — [they’re] two different things. Not, .. I’m not justifying, what happened to, you know, because these Einsatzgruppen, who would go behind the lines, police battalions to clear out, under the guise of anti-partisan activity; killed a lot of jews! And they wrote about it. Now, also that was their job, this is the “anti-commissar order” that was written up. But the way the Germans saw it, the Germans saw a lot of jews as being Bolsheviks.
[35:01]
So a lot of jews were going to be killed in that battle, in the carnage on the Eastern Front, that level of destruction, there was, ..
Joe: Exactly! Right, well said!
Tim: And not to mention he Soviet Union. They would carry out atrocities and blame them on the Germans! So it’s psychological warfare, it’s propaganda. Remember, the partisans would go out and they would kill German soldiers. So you’re going to have, … Germans aren’t going to be that sympathetic on the battlefield, or that discriminatory about who they kill. And if you want to know, if you want to single out the Germans for being particularly brutal in that factor, … Just look what happened in Vietnam with the Phoenix Program? The search and destroy missions and these things, …
Joe: Right!
Tim: … And multiply that by ten on the Eastern Front. Because it was a much larger war.
Joe: Yeah!
Tim: It is war! And the war itself was a crime, as you say, I mean, the war itself was a crime. And, you know, to pick out this here, as being somehow exceptional from some of the other atrocities, which is the war itself, to me, is well, it’s hypocritical! And you’re being highly selective in your, …
Joe: Well worse, it’s a fake narrative for the purpose of propaganda!
Tim: Yes! Because you’re singling out one side being particularly brutal, when just look at the, … Look at the landscape of Europe! It takes two to tango!
Joe: But, you know, Tim, what I’m seeing, is that the Germans are basically the sort of premier European people. And now you look at this false narrative that comes out of World War Two, and it starts long before any of the data, really, is coming in! I mean, the concept of the “German atrocity” were being developed in 1942 – 43! This is long before anyone, you know, has detailed information about what’s going on in the camps.
But the narrative is being established so, …
Tim: That is right! It’s being fed through, supplied through Harry Dexter White and Henry Morgenthau at the Treasury Department. Because they ran the War Refugee Board!
Joe: Right, and with Ben Hecht writing stories, you know, in Reader’s Digest, …
Tim: Yeah!
Joe: Where in 1943 he talks about six million jews at risk!
Tim: So you have a communist and a committed Zionist, creating the “Holocaust” narrative!
Joe: Right! And so, just like the gas chamber, and the shrunken heads, and the human head [skin] lampshades, the six million number is frankly demonstrably preposterous! It just is a metaphorical number, representing the jewish people.
I don’t know if you’ve ever seen any of the analysis of the use of the term, but “six-million” gets used, you know, thirty, forty times in the media, in the European media, before World War Two breaks out!
Tim: Yeah, exactly!
Joe: Representing the jewish people who are at risk from, …
Tim: They once blamed the Tsar for putting six-million at risk.
Joe: Right! Exactly! So, this is where, … But you see, you’re starting to develop a very clear understanding, because, you know, well the lampshades have disappeared, and they don’t appear in the movie to have any, you know, there’s no tattoos on them.
The human heads are just preposterous! I mean, the skin is black, and the idea that, that was, a POW from World War II, is just ridiculous!
The gas chambers make no sense! Just numerically, make no sense at all! I mean, … And also mechanically. I try to go through how they would kill all these people in these little gas chambers, and then get all the bodies out, and then have enough coal, or whatever it is, to burn them all. And then of course, then you have the question of habeas corpus! Where are all the bodies? Right?
Tim: That’s a whole lot of, a whole lot of bodies to bury, and lots of bodies to get rid of here.
Joe: Right! So, so again it’s you get to the idea, well they may have had gas chambers, people may have died in them, but they weren’t some kind of industrial genocidal machine! Right?
It’s just that, just isn’t any way that this can be true. And so you’ve got to the point where, you know, it’s like with the character Donald Duck, you now understand the genre of the story! We’re not being given history here. We are being given propaganda! And that’s my point Tim, is that we can be sure of that!
Tim: A good example is if you were a prisoner, an inmate, at one of these camps, labor camps, you probably saw a fair amount of brutality, people being treated harshly, even maybe summary executions. And that’s your perspective, you see that. All of a sudden you hear the story of the “Holocaust” and in your mind, you’ve witnessed the “Holocaust”! Although you saw something completely different. It wasn’t an attempt to annihilate an entire race, it was just the type of treatment you get in a labor camp, a slave labor camp, during a war.
[40:05]
Joe: Yeah. And, you know, when I read like the Red Cross reports which are very meticulous. People can contest one way, or another, but they do exist. And they actually have a number of 270,000 for the total mortalities in the camps during World War Two. And they say that maybe forty percent of the population were jews. Then you have, you know, it is a tremendous tragedy, but it is not the unique atrocity that then becomes part of a very powerful narrative propaganda.
Tim: Well it’s like this, what if in the United States, if we had the reality of the internment camps the concentration camps for the Japanese on the West Coast in the United States. And that was a tremendous injustice, to take their property, and in fact, I think the Hyatt Hotel chain is based on stolen property. [laughing] “Friends” within the Treasury Department gave it to them. The whole jewish mobster thing. But that was an incredible injustice to those xxx hundred thousand Japanese. Now what if, on that basis, because that is what it is, okay, They were interned and they were released their civil rights were violated. They lost their property, these things. But what if from that reality this narrative was spun that three million of them were worked to death, or murdered in an attempt to annihilate the entire Japanese people. Would that be a fair, …?
Joe: Exactly!
Tim: No that wouldn’t, …
Joe: Yeah. And that’s a great analogy, because that’s what’s happened. And you see the idea of “Holocaust denier”, this is just an expression to try to dominate the debate. You know, it places the person who is trying to bring this information forward as denying that jews died in the camps.
Tim: Or bad things happened to jews.
Joe: Yeah, right! Or that there weren’t even, you know, atrocities. Right?
Tim: Or that you advocate bad things! Which is illogical. [laughing]
Joe: Yeah. What I’m suggesting is that the better approach is to try to not permit that concept to be something which defeats, you know, intellectual exploration. What I think is that really you try to put on the table, particularly for the public, … Because, you know, in the alternative media I think these ideas can be discussed pretty objectively right now.
And I think that there really is a revisionism to the “Holocaust” that just going on. Because they are somewhat bad data inside of it. Unfortunately I think people are pointing out perhaps accurately that some of this is coming from a bad place in the heart. There is, you know, legitimate anti-semitism. OK? But, that has nothing to do with the idea of, are these details capable of being analysed? I mean, we should be able to have some kind of process where we come to, do the human heads look like Europeans, you know, [laughing] shrunken head? So, that the thing is, …
Tim: It looks like it would be less exasperating, you know, we’re all adults here, can we talk about this? [laughing]
Joe: Can’t even talk about it!
So, it’s just it’s just that we’re trying to find what genre are we dealing with. Is this a legitimate history, right? Or, was this propaganda? If we are dealing with propaganda then we need to go back and look at the details and recreate the narrative. Because otherwise we are going to have a false history, and a false history leads to catastrophe, as you pointed out, you know, a number of times.
False history leads to catastrophe! We need, …
Tim: But this is why the narrator has being spun though. The narrative is being spun and promoted not only, because so much of the postwar international establishment depends upon it. Particularly the state of Israel, the reparations which are billions and billions of dollars, the power of the jewish lobby the United States. A sort of moral extortion of the entire Western world, because this collective guilt has now spread from Germans to the entire world. That’s why you have these museums everywhere.
Joe: Right, exactly!
[Image] Location of Holohoax museums in the USA (click image to enlarge).
Tim: Specifically the middle European phenomenon, we have museums all throughout the United States! You know, they expect to put a museum in Iran for some reason! [laughing]
Joe: Right. I recently gave an example where it does ill to the culture, … A false narrative is always bad! Propaganda is always evil! Right? You shouldn’t use mind control, you should be able to express what you want honestly and then people can make their own minds up.
[45:08]
It was when the Hays Code was disbanded. Now that was the Hollywood production code.
I think it was always intended to be something that would be destroyed. I think Hayes was a set up. I mean, this is another body of analysis, but the code was good as it presented itself to the public. These were great principles. But in the early sixty’s it basically was done away with.
And you have to remember that the Hays Code was put into effect as a way to combat the idea that Hollywood was a jewish debasement of European culture. Because this is really what spawned the Hays Code. Is that if you look at, … I did an interview about this and I was reading a quote of just blatant and, you know, just attacking Hollywood as a jewish plot against European culture. This was after the Fatty Arbuckle event, you know, and where you had all this pornography and there were different scandals, one scandal after another.
And so they brought out the Hays Code, and they brought the Catholics, very famously. They brought the Catholics and basically, you know, it’s people who had been involved in the production of the code, because they wanted to, … Pardon?
Tim: Joseph Brean?
Joe: Yeah. And I’m not sure he was Catholic, but the Catholic Legion of Decency was vetting it. And so the public was being said:
“Hey look! We don’t have to worry about basically jewish depravity against European culture, because you’ve got this code which the Catholics have been involved with.”
But then in the sixty’s it’s disbanded. Now why? Well, I suggested that it was an example of the power of Holocaust, because it just became politically impossible to bring up these concerns about one culture attacking another.
Tim: You couldn’t be critical of any jewish organizations, jewish dominated industries without being accused of being Adolf Hitler.
Joe: Exactly right!
Tim: Well it’s interesting, because the movie that broke the production code was Rod Steiger a so-called “Holocaust” survivor, allegedly, in the “Pawn Broker”. It was a “Holocaust” movie, and it showed the topless, …
Joe: Was that Otto Premeger?
Tim: I think it might have been, I’m not sure [about] that, I’m not sure. But I do know that [in] the movie, the “Pawn Broker“, he was a “Holocaust” survivor and basically it was a “Holocaust” movie. And dealing with it, so a rather artfully, you know, well done movie, but it had that scene that the topless prostitute from the front. And think it was Cardinal Krole, I think, of Philadelphia who was writing about it. And they were trying to explain, the director was trying to say:
“This is art, you want to see the effects.”
He says:
“No. No. Don’t give me that!”
He’s kind of a streetwise priest. Its the thin end of the wedge here. It’s ridiculous. First of all, from a standpoint of art and effect, it’s much more artful to see his face! Rod Steiger’s face, his reaction to the topless lady, not her breasts! [laughing] you just want to show bare breasts because you want pornography in movies! Don’t give me this “art” crap. Degenerates always try to pass themselves off as artists, you know, that’s an old ploy.
Joe: Right! Well that’s fascinating, because that I was unaware of that. I didn’t know that it was a “Holocaust”film. But, this makes perfect sense, very logical, because, the one that I was familiar with, you know, when the code, the code actually was assaulted a number of times. The first time I was aware of was Ottor Premeger’s film. But, immediately after that was the “Pawn Broker“.
And so the Pawn Broker really can be seen — I have some information in front of me — as the sex scene was really kind of the end of the production code.
Tim: Yeah?
Joe: And this is a very, very clear example of what happens when you have the false narrative, right?
Tim: Yeah. By the way, it’s four years later, almost four years later, network television! The one movie that’s allowed to show nudity on network television is, [pause] “Schindler’s List”! [laughing]
Joe: “Schindler’s List”! So you can see the pattern, is that you have a false narrative that basically sets up a kind of psychological structure. That, from which, the population is intellectually impotent! They can’t defend themselves, because, you know, if you want to go after the “Pawn Broker” you’re basically, now wait a second, this is promoting the horrors of the “Holocaust”.
How can you possibly say this? Even if you are ratcheting down your culture into pornography. The “Holocaust” is clearly being used as the bulwark to prevent the population from responding in the way they did in the thirties with the production of the Hays Code in the first place! So there you have it, and that’s why I think it’s so important that we try to move the debate from one of “Holocaust denial” into the question of just —“what genre is it? ”
You know:
“Is this propaganda, or is this history? ”
[50:47]
Because when we look at it from that, we just say:
“Okay, what was propaganda? ”
And then you go:
“Oh well, I guess the gas chambers are propaganda”.
I guess that at the end of World War Two, when you look at CD Jackson sitting there with his two shrunken heads, and his human lampshade lamp, which are fake! Right! And, you know, damn well, the guy is producing propaganda! Because this is the guy who founded the Bilderberg, who sequestered, you know, I mean, the Zapruder film, and was a member of Operation Mockingbird — I mean his whole life is just a fake! His production of fake narratives, right? That control the population.
So here he’s in just in perfect logical character, he’s doing exactly what he always does. And so, you know, that these things, you know, you can rest assured that these things are just part of this idea of producing the concept that the Germans were, en masse, engaging in atrocities.
And this is being done to create a psychological intimidation, so that the Europeans will not then resist, the coming secret society control, vis a vis, the political system.
Tim: Yeah, of course, and you alluded to it earlier, you may want to expand upon how they were specifically targeting the Germans, because they’re central to European identity.
Obviously the “war guilt” has completely, psychologically, decapitated Germans, as part of ethnic pride, or national pride for the German State, the German peoples. And you see it today, now, because it makes you unable to articulate, if you’re German, without coming across as a Nazi, any discomfort with the migration of foreigners into your country, for a good example, …
Joe: I didn’t mean, … You made such an important point. I’m sorry I interrupted.
Tim: You alluded to it earlier, …
Joe: Yeah, but, you were pointing out that with the Muslim immigration — which is completely irrational, and culturally destructive — that the Germans cannot resist it, because they will be beaten down by the people who say:
“Well this is multiculturalism and you’re promoting racism, and this is Nazism and therefore [it’ll] be like a second ‘Holocaust’!”
Back to your “Holocaust”.
Tim: I was talking to a German lady, last year about it. And she was talking about these right-wing political movements rising in Germany. And she’s a pleasant, older lady, but she’s completely, you know, the product of post-war Germany. She has no sense of, I mean, she thought it was just horrible that some people would treat immigrant people, emigrating into Germany, that way, or be opposed to it. But of course, she’s not living there, but it’s, …
Joe: Yeah, right.
Tim:… And part of that is because she somehow thinks, her people, her country, are uniquely guilty of a horrible crime. And for her to express, …
Joe: She is victimized by the false narrative. It’s like you said, that if you actually compare it to a xxx For us to even everything that is known about German atrocities in World War Two, was equaled by the Allies, and then exceeded by the Russians! Right?
So the idea that there was some kind of, you know, possibility that the Germans were uniquely deranged, you know, the stuff that Ewen Cameron accuses them of, is simply preposterous! And the poor woman, you know, to live a life victimized by that false narrative.
I mean, hopefully, we can get enough information out, that people will start standing up for themselves, and start demanding that they, … People go back and learn the real history, and learn to distinguish between the false narrative, and the propaganda. So that they can have a clear mind, you know.
[55:00]
Because, when you look at, why are they bringing the Muslims into Europe? Well, they’re doing it, this is “weaponized immigration”!
Tim: Yeah!
Joe: It’s not going on for the benefit of anyone, not even for the Muslims who are coming in, this is going to be a gladiatorial pit!
Tim: There’s a book written, [by] Kelly Greenfeld [sp], “Weapons of Mass Migration”, that talks about this as a part of statecraft, and geo-politics. I mean, .. It’s written rather coldly, like, this is what you do. [chuckling]
Joe: Well, yeah! And the thing is when you get… you have, you know, the concept of weaponization, where they want to shatter the culture, for the purpose of control! What is the purpose of control for? Well it’s to genocide! Right?
So, when you look at them promoting multiculturalism.. Well multiculturalism is terrific! Feminism, seems like, in a lot of ways, terrific! What’s wrong with this?
Well if it’s weaponized, to be used as an element that is stated to be good, but is being inserted into culture, in such a way as to produce impotent citizens that can be easily controlled, and destroyed, and attacked! Then it’s wrong!
Then the citizens have to respond against it, and this is what we’re looking at, and that’s why I think that the stuff we’ve been talking about. With reviewing the elements of the German atrocities, to see what was used as propaganda after World War Two, is really very liberating! It makes for much clearer minds.
I was looking at a video, and it showed a very emaciated POW, and they were highlighting his leg, which was just emaciated, like he hadn’t had any food and was about to die of starvation. And then it suddenly stopped, and into the scene appeared Billy Wilder!
[Tim chuckling]
And then everyone is sitting and talking and it gets re-shot. Now this is propaganda! You see. Billy Wilder was not there as a historian, he wasn’t brought there to create an accurate history. He was there, because he creates fiction! He’s a propagandist! He’s also a Free-mason, and just a bizarre character.
But this is why he is there, and that’s why, you know, when you look at, … It’s just by an amazing quirk of history, it is another Bernays, who is structuring the Nuremberg Trial! Right?
You can rest assured you’re not dealing with a process that’s attempting to find the truth; it’s a process to create propaganda! This is what the family [Bernays] does.
So we have been, you know, been basically led into a debased and a weakened condition, by a system of propaganda that it’s easy to trace all the way back to György Lukács after World War One, and even before that.
So, people just need to find the energy to do the research, to verify everything that we’ve been saying, so that they can do their own research, and get information that’s now available, and clear their minds up, Tim!
Tim: And you mention, of course, CD Jackson and his role in Mockingbird, which I think dates around 1949, which is pretty much right after the CIA was created. So that program was instituted immediately after the CIA was created. Of course, you also have Frank Wisner, who referred to his effort, his ability, to manipulate the American people, through the media, the “Mighty Wurlitzer”. You play the people like a Wurlizter organ. And this is done through the control of the media, through CIA, Mockingbird, and also through the Time Life Empire, which goes back to Skull and Bones.
All goes back to the same secret society that created outfits, which created things like the CIA. Which is sort of this consummation of the sort of incestuous relationship, that these families, the financial interests, the banks, have with government, going way back in history. At least in American history at that time. Because you saw that with the Spanish-American War. National City Bank worked with the newspapers, the yellow journalists to foment that war, so they could seize the sugar fields in Cuba, and also go expand into Asia, and then work with the Japanese, … [chuckling]
Joe: Yeah!
Tim: … For a while, until they turned on the Japanese.
[60:04]
Joe: I mean you have like the first, you know, like heads of the CIA. You’ve got Donovan, Dulles, and Helms.
Well, what is their, … you know, like common theme? Well, they’re all investment banking attorneys!
Tim: Yeah.
Joe: You know, well wait a sec. This is supposed to be, you know, international intelligence organization, that we can’t, …you know, how come every single one of them, basically is a manager of money using legality. It just seems preposterous, and then, of course, Donovan is working with the head of the OSS in Europe, with setting up things like, you know, the Nuremberg trial.
And this is Mellon, right? I mean, this is like General whatever, you know. Colonel Mellon, who’s like the scion of the Mellon family! I mean, the influence of the banking families, inside of this mess, is self-evident! And just another, … Oh, it’s just another clear point, that the public needs to recognize, to understand that it is an organized society. The democracy we have is fake! Decisions were being made, based on the propaganda.
I mean, the women you talked about, who believed that the Germans had somehow uniquely committed crimes against humanity. You know, that’s an individual that can’t participate in democracy, reasonably. Because they have a false history.
Tim: Because she can’t even, … She’s so, … Her guilt is so pathological, and so internalized, that the assault on her own community, her own ethnicity, she can’t even articulate an argument, she can’t even feel it!
Joe: Yeah, that’s right! And that’s like when you see, like college kids, women, who are, you know, victims of cultural Marxism, that you want to basically, physically defend safe spaces, that, .. So they can have just these culturally destructive organizations. The whole history of how these ideas came into that person’s head, needs to be exposed to the individual. So that then they can go:
“Oh, my gosh! I have been controlled! I’m heading off a cliff, …”
Tim: Well, these are like foundational beliefs. It’s very hard when you come across something as defining as the “Holocaust” narrative, and you find that it starts to crumble under scrutiny. All of a sudden your worldview starts to crumble, and what happens is you’re not going…
Joe: What are you going to do? Well, that’s, …
Tim: Oh, I got to start, I got to get to work! Because I can’t trust these institutions that educated me, that informed me, the media! So you have two choices, you can say:
“Now this is insane, and I’m not going to hear it, and I’m just going to go back to where I think the world is, because I’ve already put so many, … I’ve invested so much time into it, and it would require me to go back and re-evaluate so much. And I don’t have time, nor have the inclination to do this. I’m not going to do this. I’d rather, … I’m much more comfortable with the moralistic fairy tale I’ve been given, and so I’m not going hear any more!”
Joe: Yeah.
Tim: So, you let your world crumble, and then you realise:
“Huh oh! Why, you can’t rely on the universities to educate you, and why am I paying for it? you can’t rely on the constitutional legal authorities to protect your Rights. You can’t rely on government. You can’t rely on the media. You can’t read the newspapers, or the, you know, the mainstream media to inform you. I have to start thinking.”
I’m all of a sudden, you’re kind of stuck in a sort of a befuddlement, because now, where do you get your information from? It becomes very confusing and bewildering. And if you’re, … like most people, you just want the media to kind of distill the news for you, provide it for you, put it in a little package, wrap it with a little bow, this is how the world works. Most people want that, because they have to go to work, and then the leisure time, either do something with their family, or they want to be entertained.
And who has the time, who has the time to hold these psychopaths accountable?
That’s the big problem, no one has the practical time to hold these psychopaths accountable!
And this is why self-government; the rule of law; democracy; is such a sham! Because no one puts the time in to hold these crooks, and psychopaths accountable!
Joe: They don’t have the time, and they don’t have the capacity and that’s why, of course, the Internet is so dangerous to the oligarchs, because:
One, the citizens can communicate with one another. As for example, us now with the people who are listening to the show. And moreover, you can get vast amounts of information very quickly. And if people start thinking clearly, then it becomes very dangerous because, you know, I think when you have someone, for example, like the individual you were talking about who is confused, [it’s] hard to reach them, even with facts, and clear analysis. But as people start to move down the path you describe, it starts out with a little bit of humility, and it’s very humbling.
[65:25]
Oh my gosh! I can’t believe this, I’ve been fooled! Very, very humbling!
I remember when I spent like a very bad couple months looking at the building seven [WTC7] collapse. And I had to do this kind of bizarre mental-shift thinking, that I’ve been dealing with the “Government” and “My Nation”, the way I have been told about it, and then suddenly I realize, wait a second, it’s completely fake!
Tim: Yeah.
Joe: And that was very difficult, and it’s gotten better though, because now there are, at that time there really wasn’t, you know, the media hadn’t really blossomed, but now, it’s just, basically it’s spreading everywhere. And so groups are becoming established, people are resisting, and the basic natural capacity of the human intellect is being unleashed!
Tim: Yeah, if you don’t believe that buildings can be hit by airplanes, and aviation fuel can cause them to collapse, free-fall, and symmetrical collapse, you may doubt, you may be skeptical, when the doctor says, your new-born baby should be given hepatitis-B shot! [laughing]
Joe: [laughs]
Tim: I find the same people who don’t doubt babies being given hepatitis-B shots, under the cover of vaccines, also don’t, … have no problem with watching these buildings collapse free-fall, and symmetrical collapse, suffering symmetrical damage.
Joe: What a great analysis! In your interview with April Bowden?
Tim: Yeah.
Joe: You cover that point, and it’s just so profound! It’s like:
“Look if they’re going to be giving new-born males vaccines against sexually transmitted disease, then the whole system is completely fake!”
Tim: Why would anyone to touch me? Get away from me! You’re a quack, a nut!
Joe: Yeah! Just get out of there! And so that’s the moment. It’s when the citizen just, … I don’t know how to bring it about, I wish I did, Tim. I wish I could find some way of expressing the research I’ve done, or the thinking that I’ve done, about these things, in a form that would help people get their light turned on! Everyone basically has to go their own path, I imagine.
Tim: Yeah, well a lot of, … I guess as I talk about these things in mixed company, if you raise questions, ask something, they act as if you think you have the answer. No, what I’m saying is, I don’t! [chuckling]
Joe: Right.
Tim: I’m just pointing out these inconsistencies, these problems. Explain this to me in the context of the official narrative we’ve been given. I’m pointing out that the narratives that we’ve been given, are false!
Joe: Right.
Tim: And half-truths are outright lies! And the best lies are actually have truths, or partial truths.
Joe: Yeah. We’re trying to investigate, to determine the “genre”. I mean, truth is something that in the absolute sense, is something that isn’t even possible, we’re just trying to determine what is the damn “genre”!
Is it propaganda? Is it mind control? Or is it history? If it’s history, there’s a very precise scrutiny that it can be placed under, and it can satisfy the criteria of analysis!
There should be no prohibition of analysis of what is history!
The fact that all these countries have created laws against, you know, questioning the “Holocaust” is an ABSOLUTE assertion that it is propaganda!
Because history never has a problem being scrutinised! Propaganda always does!
And all we’re trying to do, we say:
“Look! We’ve got all of these elements that are built into this German maniac atrocity, story-line about their behaviour in World War Two in the “Holocaust”. And all of these details seem to be ahistorical, but they all work in terms of propaganda.”
So the question is: What is the genre? And it just, .. To me it’s just self-evident! And particularly when you show all these connections, and just, I mean, CD Jackson is a “propagandist” – that’s what he does!
[69:56]
Tim: In the entire post war network news establishment…
Joe: Right!
Tim: He slithered out from Office of War Information, OSS, Walter Cronkite’s, Sarnoff, William Paley, …
Joe: Herbert Marcuse.
Tim: Herbert Marcuse, [laughing] media, entertainer… the whole thing on how we are supposed to understand the world, is seen through their lens, you know…
Joe: Yeah!
Tim:… And to take it as gospel, is ridiculous! I mean, it’s just, … Think about it for a couple seconds.
Joe: Well it’s sort of like saying:
“Well gee, I mean, Bernays created the Nuremberg Trial, so I guess I should really treat it as objective history, …”
Tim: Yeah! Well we now know that people were tortured and coerced and, …
Joe: Yeah and also, … Well wait! Doesn’t this family just create propaganda? Didn’t they invent the term?
Tim: Didn’t he write a book?
[“Propaganda”, an influential book written by Edward L. Bernays in 1928, incorporated the literature from social science and psychological manipulation into an examination of the techniques of public communication. Bernays wrote the book in response to the success of some of his earlier works such as “Crystallizing Public Opinion” (1923) and “A Public Relations Counsel” (1927). Propaganda explored the psychology behind manipulating masses and the ability to use symbolic action and propaganda to influence politics, effect social change, and lobby for gender and racial equality. Walter Lippman was Bernays’ unacknowledged American mentor and his work “The Phantom Public” greatly influenced the ideas expressed in “Propaganda” a year later. The work propelled Bernays into media historians’ view of him as the “father of public relations.”
Source: https:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propagandation (book) ]
Joe: I mean, don’t they talk about how like a small group of people can control the ways that everyone understands history? Right?
So this in, and of itself, should just raise the red flag!
We’re dealing with propagandists! When they wanted to document, right, did they bring in a historian or a fictional filmmaker? I mean the people who created these videos, it’s Billy Wilder, folks!
I mean, this is the guy that created the scene with Marilyn Monroe on a street grill with her dress billowing up! This is what the guy does! He creates scenes for emotional effect, he’s not a historian!
[Image] Billy Wilder with Marilyn Monroe on the set of The Seven Year Itch.
“Marilyn Monroe mesmerized a crowd of lucky onlookers while her white dress blew suggestively above her knees—and sometimes over her head. It was 1954, and the director Billy Wilder was filming a scene of the film The Seven Year Itch on Lexington Avenue between 52nd and 53rd Street in New York City. In the script, Marilyn Monroe and co-star Tom Ewell exit a movie theater and a breeze from the subway passing below lifts Marilyn’s skirt. Instead of rushing to cover her legs, as any decent woman of that era would have, Marilyn exclaims, “Isn’t it delicious?”” Source: https://www.biography.com/news/marilyn-monroe-seven-year-itch-dress-photos
He’s not a historian! [laughing] It is not history!
Tim: It’s Steven Spielberg, he won the, … He brought us the movie about the “Holocaust”. Also brought us a movie about dinosaurs that are alive.
Joe: Yeah! That’s right! [laughing]
Tim: So, you know…
Joe: So it’s just, we have to flip the bit, you know, and just say:
“You know what? Too much propaganda! Too little history! We’re going to change direction here, and the citizens are going to, as a group, say: You know what! We want to revisit this whole thing!”
We want to go back and look at every single detail; and don’t hit us with the idea that, you know, we’re “Holocaust deniers”, we’re not! We just want to know the genre that we’re being subjected to.
Tim: Well that term wasn’t used until the seventy’s. I think Martin Gilbert wrote a book called, “The Holocaust”* and then there was the CBS mini-series “Holocaust”.
[*Sir Martin Gilbert (25 October 1936 – 3 February 2015) was a jewish-British historian and honorary Fellow of Merton College, University of Oxford. He was the author of eighty-eight books, including works on Winston Churchill, the 20th century, and Jewish history.
Author of “The Holocaust: A History of the Jews of Europe During the Second World War” (1987)]
[Image] Martin Gilbert and his 1987 book “The Holocaust“. Right — Gilbert being awarded an honorary doctorate at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev in Beersheba, Israel, 2011.
Joe: Yeah!
Tim: Prior to that wasn’t using the historiography of the Second World War. It wasn’t so, … centered around the “Holocaust”.
Now it is. Nazis, and jews, and the “Holocaust”. And you know, World War Two was a global conflagration and it meant different things to different people as they experienced it differently. Certainly it was different for the Americans on the Home Front than if you were in Europe, you know, than where it was being fought in Asia. It’s different if you were, … Your experience of the war was different if you were an air-raid victim in Dresden, or if you were an inmate at a concentration camp, or a labor camp, or if you’re on the, you know, a soldier at the Eastern Front. And your idea of who was good or bad differs!
I heard an account of some ethnic Georgians, I believe, during this, the 1942 campaign. The Germans, the Wehrmacht, liberated a train that was headed east to Siberia, to the gulag, and they liberated these people and saved their lives from the Russians. So their understanding of who was bad and who was good in that war is very different than maybe a jewish Pole, a Polish jew.
Joe: Yeah.
Tim: If you were an Indian, and starving to death, because of the British policies, when they were stealing all the food out of Bengal in 1943, to export it to England. And your family starved to death, because of the forced famine at the hands of the British. Your idea of who was good, and who was bad is different in that war. So it’s a very complex event, it isn’t simple.
And that should be obviously, that’s, …
Joe: Yes, that’s right. And what happens, … To me, it’s like, okay, so the question is how many of these elements have to go into dispute, or question marks. I mean the gas chambers. If you subtract that from the narrative? The lampshade? What about the human experimentation? Right? That seems to have been exactly the foundation of the MK-Ultra in experimentation, right?
And then the number of people killed in the camps, what about this the, like the Red Cross’ estimates for one hundred thousand jewish deaths?
In other words if the six-million goes away? If you start losing the details, if they start disappearing as historical elements, if they start being exposed as — well it’s just propaganda we’re trying, … How many of these things have to disappear before the “Holocaust” then, doesn’t have the psychological power, that the people who created the propaganda wanted it to have?
[75:04]
You know, how many of these elements, I mean, if we really… if people go:
“Well gee! Bernays created the Nuremberg trial. Is that something you can really trust?”
I mean, CD Jackson, the guy who set up Bilderberg; and who was, Henry Luce, Skull and Bones, who created the Gordon Wasson fake narrative to set up the “Counterculture”?
I mean, you can’t trust CD Jackson, right? And then Ewen Cameron, he’s writing these stories about the German people, as these atrocity creators, and there’s something deranged, — but wait a second, Ewen Cameron is MK-Ultra, human experimentations, that are so vicious, that it’s even hard to talk about them!
Tim: Right.
Joe: So I guess he’s gone too! Right?
Tim: Right.
Joe: Well then now, wait a second, what’s left of the propaganda?
You see, the propaganda power starts to disappear. You’re still left with the historical details, we’re not denying anything, we are simply going through, and trying to make sense of what has been asserted, and which can be, basically, put: As either false, or as a question mark.
And then looking at what’s left, to see, well how much “Political Power” does the propaganda – that tries to come from something that is closer to history – have?
Tim: Hmm, hmm.
Joe: And you see my point is that it has none!
And that’s really what people are afraid of and that’s why they’ve made these laws, you know, so people can’t study it.
Tim: Yeah.
Joe: And they try to, … they’re constantly trying to reinforce the power of the “Holocaust” with these films and stuff.
Because they know it can’t stand any real scrutiny. It’s simple! It’s clear as a bell, to me! It’s just they know it can’t, because they know that if one, or two of these details starts to collapse, and then people go:
“Well, I’m going to look at another detail.”
It doesn’t take many, for people to realize, it’s propaganda, it’s not history. And that’s why the shrunken heads, and the lampshade business, I mean, those are very valuable things, those are like the pay requisitions for MK-Ultra.
Tim: Yeah, yeah.
Joe: They are so obviously fake! And they show that there was an attempt to create propaganda, at the very day that the US arrived arrove [arrived] at the so-called concentration camps, …
Tim: Yeah.
Joe: The very day! So they had this in mind, the propaganda has been going full-force since the very beginning!
Tim: Well to this day the camps are now, you know, the camps are now theme parks.
Joe: Yeah!
Tim: Auschwitz has a gift shop. [laughing]
Joe: It’s insane!
Tim: Merchandising! Merchandising, my boy!
But, I was talking about this very subject, “scepticism towards the official narrative of the “Holocaust”, and the problems with it”, and someone says:
“Well, I’ve been to the camps!”
Joe: [laughing]
Tim: I’ve been to a concentration camp, … Well there are camps in the United States, what does that mean? Well it doesn’t mean anything, …
Joe: Yeah!
Tim: … As it’s now established that they [the Americans at Dachau] did construct fake gas-chambers for people to tour, in the Western camps.
Joe: Sure! I mean, what we’re looking at now, is no more real than Schindler’s List!
Tim: Yeah, well it’s a movie. Well that’s how most people’s view of the world is and, …
Joe: Well, that’s what you get, … They get it from Hollywood, they get it, … Which is just based, … And now Hollywood can be exposed, as just an arm of the Secret Society. People should turn off that crap! You know, I have said over and over again on our show, that you know, just turn off the legacy media, as it’s called, “legacy media”. [chuckling]
You know, because it’s not, … It looks like a cesspool! You go:
“Gee! It’s pornographic, it’s stupid!”
It’s not a cesspool, it’s a weapon! There is clever intent, in back of it, and when you subject yourself to Schindler’s List, and to some debate about “Holocaust deniers” that’s being held on CNN, you’re just being in a kind of mental grinder, that’s just pushing you in a certain direction.
This isn’t how you’re going to get to a clear mind, you know?
You have to xxx your mind by realizing that the propaganda is in play here! And then trying to do your own research, to find out what, … which one of the elements is believable.
And how many of them have to become, either a question mark, or just patently fake, before you realize that — Gee! I’ve been suffering from the effects of propaganda, like that poor [German] lady you described.
Tim: Yeah, yeah. Well Joe, I think… anything else? I think you covered it, everything, Yeah. I think there, …
Joe: No, we’re pretty good, …we gave it a pretty good thumping! Yeah, I was happy to have this conversation. I’ve been wanting to talk about this for some time, and I’m glad I was able to talk about it, with you Tim. This is very interesting to me, and, we’ll see how people respond to this.
[80:12]
Tim: Yeah. So, so, I’ll probably be called a “Nazi”.
Joe: Me too! But we’ll try to point out well we’re not “Holocaust deniers”. [laughing]
Tim: No! I just …
Joe: Well, we’re just seekers of the truth! We do what we want to do. And I think that, you know, what, they’ll have a hard time because, it’s so easy to show how propaganda is being created through all of these different individuals, and all these different false elements that they’re putting. That the search for the question about what part of it is propaganda is so obvious and righteous!
No one, no one can stand up against that search for very long! It’s just, it’s time to happen, Tim!
Tim: Yes. So much of the propaganda, I think your analogy about Donald Duck, is valuable there, because there was a duck, named Donald, and I guess you could call him Donald Duck, but he wasn’t the Donald Duck of Disney that we’re all … not even close to that, and that’s history.
Joe: We can’t, .. We can’t, you know. They’ll say:
“Oh my God! You’re denying the camps existed! You’re denying that jews died in the camps, …
Tim: That no one died, no!
Joe: Yes, we are trying to find the genre!
Tim: Yeah.
Joe: What is the intent of the people who are bringing, … who are weaving all of these details into a story, that then becomes our narrative about history?
What was the intent of these people? What was the intent of CD Jackson? What’s the intent of Ewen Cameron? What’s the intent of Bernays?
Tim: And it could be that the use of Zyklon-B, an insecticide, was there to deal with lice, there for to knock down the typhus problem, as opposed to this idea, [laughing] it was applied to mass extermination of people!
Joe: Well you know, if you want to talk about that one aspect. Okay, fine. But I mean, well yeah…
Tim: Yeah. Where’s the evidence?
Joe: Well let’s go through the evidence. We can actually, … This is great, this is great, because this would be an empirical, … Well, is there enough, … Well first of all: Where are the bodies? Where are the bones? Where are the records of population reduction?
And why does the Red Cross have not seen any of this?
So the evidence becomes, the videos of the bodies being pushed into, I mean, is that IT?
What is that evidence of?
Tim: Yeah exactly! What is that?
Joe: It doesn’t show the violence, it doesn’t show what led to the event, it just shows a big pile of corpses. I’m sorry!
Tim: Skinny, emaciated, the sick jumble, you know. That doesn’t tell us anything! Germany is full of people like that! It’s called a “famine” — that’s one thing war creates is famine, especially when everything, … You’ve been bombed back to the Stone Age!
Joe: Yeah, and so you don’t need to have many of these elements. And that’s like with the gassing thing! And I hadn’t really done a lot of work on it, but I did some work this week trying to make some sense out of it. It’s completely absurd! I just, I just mean:
THE CASE THAT IT IS CLEAR HISTORY IS ABSURD!
Right! There just is not, CLEAR EVIDENCE, that well, we can absolutely be sure that six-million jews were put into gas, … Ah no! Sorry!
You know, where are the bones first of all? So, you know, well they were incinerated. Where? How? What rate?
Tim: With what fuel?
Joe: Yeah, and where is the fuel to do this? And so, the thing is that, like I say, what we’re dealing here is propaganda, not history!
Tim: Hmm, … Okay Joe, I’ll let you go.
Joe: Fine brother! Well thank you so much! We’ll get them next week, okay?
Tim: Next week! Take it easy. Enjoy your weekend. Bye, bye.
Joe: You too, bye!
[83:56]
END
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